“与任何人或事物共舞” | 社群联动访谈

本期访谈对象

尼提帕 · 波尔柴（泰国）Nitipat Ong Pholchai

来自泰国曼谷的舞者、物理学家和教育者。他在哈佛大学和加州大学伯克利分校学习物理学，在旧金山湾区生活期间爱上接触即兴。2014年回到泰国后，Ong一直积极推动身心教育和接触即兴，工作与合作的舞蹈群体跨越亚洲和欧洲。他的作品探索舞蹈与无视觉、新兴合作、社会编舞、媒体写作、多元性别生态和重症监护实践等交叉领域。他因舞蹈研究和记录材料《无视觉仪式》（"Blind Rituals"）被更多人得知，也因此获得东南亚编舞家网络和亚洲文化理事会奖

1. How did you first encounter Contact Improv, or how did it find its way to you?

It was around 2013, after training in several modern dance styles and performing in SF bay area, I decided I want to dance freelance in dance companies, so my teacher recommended me to study CI, just because it helps me collect 'inversion' and 'partnering' techniques, the skills that make a male dancer (who started training as late as 25 year old like me) more 'hirable.' My first CI impression in Kim Epifano's class was very fun and different than other dance training I had, in that the technique was more like 'a puzzle' for my body to solve in myriad ways, so I learned tools to be creative and to interact with other dancers and situations. It was about "making dance" together with people, instead of trying to 'perfect a style.' I also landed one my first professional gigs with her also, and met amazing creative dance artists in the following project. Another very notable CI encounter for me was my first jam that happened just within a few weeks after that class. I danced with this guy Rene for hours and the 'flow' I experienced was out of this world. How my body intelligently responded and blended with gravity, the conception of "me", my will, my ego melted. I was only there to witness the wonder and wisdom of the moving bodies in harmony. It was unlike any other dance training I had practiced before.  

2. What do you think distinguish CI, this open-source practice, from other dance forms？

Well actually there is a lot of overlap and perhaps it's valuable to discuss similarity and contrast and reference of CI to other movement practices (Novack's Book is one of those good source on this). But if the question for me is to discuss the main unique features of CI, I think it is that CI overarches many forms of practices and it is especially very inclusive and accommodating to many different types of bodies and cultures, and CI is still evolving strongly with whomever it touches. Most other movement forms developed by means of exclusion: picking out certain goals, forms, patterns and aesthetics, and kept refining it. But CI practices, being rather free-form, and community-based and especially the moment that the first generation of CI practitioners decided NOT to certify, or codify it, that for me left a HUGE and long-lasting impact. It means people can keep contributing their particular embodiment to the form. CI is driven by research and curiosity about body. CI is about attention, perception, and relationship. It's about being present, listening, communication in a very 'functional' way. It encourages ones to continue questioning, keeping their orientation alive, staying in communication with partners and the field. It engages one's own being holistically into the touch point(s) while at the same time practicing surrendering his/her own agenda, or any preconceived ideas about movement. 

3. Could you share some insights into your approach to inner exploration during your Contact Improv journey, such as body-mind exploration, spontaneity, and attention? Have there been any surprising moments that have left a lasting impact or inspiration? How did these moments of surprise evolve or influence your practice?

- In CI, the body, together with the world, are 'becoming.' You don't copy a 'visual' form, or you don't take your body as a form at all, but instead you let your body follow a point of attention, then physically and energetically they are forming continually. It forces you to sense the tactile feedback and involves the entirety of your system.

- In CI, we sense the earth, we are not independent of the earth and gravity. We are intertwined and inter-are. We also acknowledge other bodies in the space through our senses. We let the touching be touched. The leading be following.  

- I've noticed that my purpose and approach to CI have been evolving with my life and is always in constant flux. Looking back at my beginning in 2013-2014, I realized that the communal support of two of my lovely experienced CI friends Maica and Cory was instrumental to realizing the power of this CI practice. It wasn't just about technical skills. But it's about meeting diverse people at the soul level beyond the social roles and boundaries. And that help awaken in me hidden parts inside myself and gaining access into the life experience of others, even nonverbally. When the body listen, the heart readily open to new experiences and possibilities.

- In my earlier year of CI dancing, I have met a teacher/friend who demonstrated the ability 'to dance with anyone or anything' and makes that person/thing beautiful. I was left with an impression that this ability would make one 'the ideal CI dancer.

4. Have you ever experienced frustration due to technical challenges in Contact Improv? Were there times when your fixation on mastering specific movement techniques took you away from the present moment, making you feel more restricted? Do you believe that learning techniques holds significant importance in Contact Improv practice?

Any thoughts of "not enough." Like, my body is not in good enough condition. Or the thoughts of the next person being better than me, or not as good as me, that sort of things. Or even the thoughts that I will have to dance better tomorrow somehow. Or I don't dance as good as yesterday. I think this is the most frustrating, detrimental 'technical challenges' in CI!

I believe to stay wherever we are now with our body and enjoy it becoming/joining in the flux is the ultimate CI technique. CI technique is a constant warming up/tuning in my body awareness and perception. In CI, I don't condition my body for a certain pre-conceived notion of performance. It's about noticing the performativity of what already is.

I feel people when they say techniques, it can mean many different things. To me techniques are just procedures or processes that one do to achieve certain goals, (which depends on what you want exactly(aesthetics)), and a hundred people can have a hundred techniques, up to their own. Some techniques might click or work with me, some might be less so, depending on a lot of things like, did i eat the right kind of food that day, for example. But deep down, knowing what exactly you want/why you want it, that brings me down to 'principles.' It's important to go to the level of "principles" if you really want something out of the techniques that you practice.

To give an example, when a teacher teaches a specific 'movement pattern' to practice with a partner, there is always some principle (especially the 'sensing' process-quality) underneath the formal appearance. Some people might choose to 'see' or 'perceive' particular aspect of that movement, for example as a spectacular 'high-lift,' but there is always something not as product-like representation or a cut-out interpretation/answer like that. And if your partners are too focused on the outcome rather than the process, you will likely be doomed. Or even if you succeed, it would be luck and not really technique. For me, a lot of CI technique is about training perception to attune to the process 'in focus', and being able to adapt the process to the varying contexts including those 'noises' of the wish/want/outcome-orientation. So a lot of troubleshooting the CI techniques, is about how to stay with and got get side-tracked by other distractions from the actual sensing-process.

5. Throughout your CI learning, what sparked your interest in expanding your practice to include dialogue and collaboration with others, social engagement, and interdisciplinary perspectives? How have these explorations influenced both you and your Contact Improv practice?

I'm always curious about people and myself. And CI perfectly fulfills these needs in me. You can imagine how my American modern dance and ballet training back in the US easily become not so relevant to the people in Thailand I work with. CI, on the other hand, gave a much richer dance anthropology lens to ask more fluid, more open and more inclusive questions about human interactions and society. It's ubiquitous. When I share CI, it's about me and the participants making a dance together from scratch (that consists of our body perception and our environment). It's already a collaboration. I listen a lot and made it religious that everybody reflect and harvest together what the CI practice meant for them. (My background in education and research probably contributes to that). The queer activists who were in my class started bringing and adapting this work in their community. My adaptation of the CI practice to train with a blind dancer also become another new 'techniques.' In some instances, I let him teach me how he'd dance and know space, and what I learned was so revolutionary!

Besides, to dance CI, it was necessary to have a dance partner! And to find a person to dance with, it is in itself a CI skill. How you approach them, how to invite them and yourself to find your dance together, that's a CI technique. Finding the context to dance in, that's also CI technique.  

6. What does CI mean to you?

CI means inviting every touch/meetings to be an improvisation that it already is, and not to take anything for granted. And CI happens at a 'cellular' level. The cells were once equal before they differentiated. The cells live on earth with an atmosphere which is part of the universe, and they need to do the sensing to know that. 

照片来自Ong

©️ Kamonthip Bunnag, Yort Photography