2007年伯克希尔股东会问答:
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Mr. Buffett and Mr. Munger, I’m Marc Rabinov from Melbourne, Australia.听众:巴菲特先生,芒格先生,我是马克·拉宾诺夫,来自澳大利亚墨尔本。
I just wanted to ask you, how do you judge the right margin of safety to use when investing in various common stocks?我只是想问你,在投资各种普通股时,你如何判断正确的安全边际?
For example, in a dominant, long-standing, stable business, would you demand a 10 percent margin of safety and, if so, how would you increase this in a weaker business? Thank you.例如,在一个长期稳定的占主导地位的业务中,你会要求10%的安全边际吗?如果是这样,你会如何在一个较弱的业务中增加这一比例?谢谢你!
WARREN BUFFETT: We favor the businesses where we really think we know the answer.沃伦•巴菲特:我们青睐那些我们真正知道答案的企业。
And, therefore, if a business gets to the point where we think the industry in which it operates, the competitive position or anything is so chancy that we can’t really come up with a figure, we don’t really try to compensate for that sort of thing by having some extra large margin of safety.因此,如果一家企业达到了我们认为它所处的行业、竞争地位或任何事情都很不确定的地步,以至于我们无法真正得出一个数字,我们就不会试图通过一些额外的大安全边际来补偿这种情况。
We really want to try to go on to something that we understand better. So if we buy something like — See’s Candy as a business or Coca-Cola as a stock, we don’t think we need a huge margin of safety because we don’t think we’re going to be wrong about our assumptions in any material way.我们真的很想继续研究我们更了解的东西。所以如果我们购买像喜诗糖果这样的企业,或者像可口可乐这样的股票,我们不认为我们需要一个巨大的安全边际,因为我们不认为我们的假设在任何重大方面会是错误的。
What we really want to do is buy a business that’s a great business, which means that business is going to earn a high return on capital employed for a very long period of time, and where we think the management will treat us right.我们真正想做的是收购一家优秀的企业,这意味着这家企业将在很长一段时间内获得很高的资本回报率,而且我们认为管理层会善待我们。
We don’t have to mark those down a lot when we find those factors. We’d love to find them when they’re selling at 40 cents on the dollar but we will buy those as much closer to a dollar on the dollar. We don’t like to pay a dollar on the dollar, but we’ll pay something close.当我们发现那些因素时,我们不必大幅度降低它们的估价。如果它们能以四折的价格出售,我们当然愿意购买,但我们会在接近原价的时候购买它们。我们不喜欢按原价购买,但我们会支付接近原价的价格。
And if we really get to something — you know, when we see a great business, it’s like if you see some — somebody walk in the door, you don’t know whether they weigh 300 pounds or 325 pounds. You still know they’re fat, right, you know?如果我们真的遇到某种情况——你知道,当我们看到一个伟大的企业时,这就像如果你看到有人走进门,你不知道他们是重300磅还是325磅。但你仍然知道他们很胖,对吧,你知道?
And so if we see something we know it’s fat, financially, we don’t worry about being precise. And if we can come in, in that particular example, at the equivalent of 270 pounds, we’ll feel good.因此,如果我们看到一个财务上很“胖”的东西,我们就不担心需要精确。如果我们能在那个特定的例子中以相当于270磅的价格进入,我们会感觉很好。
But if we find something where the competitive aspects are — it’s just the nature of the business that you really can’t see out five or 10 or 20 years because that’s what investing is, is seeing out.但是,如果我们发现有些企业的竞争优势方面——由于业务的本质,你真的无法预见未来五到十年的情况,因为这就是投资的本质,就是预见未来。
You don’t get paid for what’s already happened. You only get paid for what’s going to happen in the future. The past is only useful to you in the extent to which it gives you insights into the future, and sometimes the past doesn’t give you any insights into the future.你不会因为已经发生的事而得到报酬。你只会因为未来发生的事情而得到报酬。过去只有在它能让你洞悉未来的时候才有用,而有时候过去并不能让你洞悉未来。
And in other cases, like the stable business that you postulated, it probably does give you a pretty good guideline as to what’s going to happen in the future, and you don’t need a huge margin of safety.在其他情况下,比如你假设的稳定型企业,它可能确实为你提供了一个相当不错的指导方针,告诉你未来会发生什么,而你不需要一个巨大的安全边际。
You should have something that — you always should feel you’re getting a little more than what it’s worth, and there are times when we’ve been able to buy wonderful businesses at a quarter of what they’re worth, but we haven’t seen those — well, we saw it in Korea here recently — but you don’t see those sort of things very often.你应该拥有这样一种感觉——你总是应该觉得你得到的比你付出的要多,有时候我们确实能够以它们价值的四分之一购买到出色的企业,但我们并没有经常看到这样的机会——嗯,我们最近在韩国就看到了这样的例子——但你并不经常看到这类事情。
And does that mean you should sit around and hope they come back for 10 or — you know, wait 10 or 15 years? That’s not the way we do it. If we can buy good businesses at a reasonable valuation, we’re going to keep doing it.这是否意味着你应该坐在那里希望它们在10年或15年后回来?你知道,等待10或15年?这不是我们的做法。如果我们能够以合理的估值购买好的企业,我们就会持续这样做。
查理?
CHARLIE MUNGER: Yeah. You’re — that margin of safety concept boils down to getting more value than you’re paying. And that value can exist in a lot of different forms.查理·芒格:是的。安全边际的概念可以归结为获得比你付出的更多的价值。这种价值可以以很多不同的形式存在。
If you’re paid four-to-one on something that’s an even money proposition, why, that’s a value proposition, too.如果你在一项公平的赌注上下注,而赔率是四比一,那么这也是一个价值主张。
It’s high school algebra. And people who don’t know how to use high school algebra should take up some other activity.这是高中代数。不知道如何使用高中代数的人应该参加一些其他活动。
巴菲特清晰地阐述了他的观点,通过价格折扣或安全边际本身不能消除风险,投资首先要在自己的能力圈内。对于确定性很强的生意,可以要求较少的安全边际,不用一直等待而错过上车的机会。在巴菲特给的例子中,对于喜诗糖果或可口可乐这种确定性极高的业务,他愿意付出的价格是内在价值的9折。不过请注意,巴菲特说喜诗糖果和可口可乐不需要多大安全边际,但他估值是比较保守的,他买入喜诗糖果的市盈率约为12,买入可口可乐的市盈率约为15。老巴不会盲目去预测多年15%的增速,给30倍的合理估值。塞思·卡拉曼在《证券分析》第六版的前言中谈到买入的标准时写道:“一个标准是:无论内在价值是按照清算价值、持续经营价值,还是私有市场价值(了解情况的独立第三方愿意为收购该公司所支付的价值)来计算的,当一只证券的价格在其内在价值基础上有30%、40%或更高的折扣时,便可以买入。”考虑到以下几个因素,我认为个人投资者更适合借鉴卡拉曼的标准,将买点设置的更保守:
1、巴菲特的功力深不可测,他能用9折,不代表所有人都能用;
2、2006~2007年的伯克希尔,资本规模已经相当庞大(总资产2500亿~2700美元、股东权益超过1100亿美元),在2000年的股东信中巴菲特明确表示未来的目标仅仅是略微超过标普500指数,而不是像早期那样追求超过道琼斯指数10个百分点;庞大的资本规模限制了收益率;
3、卡拉曼是专职投资股票,巴菲特旗下不仅有保险企业,也有很多经营实体。在之前的文章中,我曾经谈到过,2/3是一个相对合适的买入标准(源于格雷厄姆早期的思想及巴菲特以卡车通过桥梁的比喻)。综合上面的考量,如果采用分批买入的策略,我认为当价格为内在价值的60%~70%时,是一个值得参考的买入区间。当然,前提是贴现率也参考巴菲特或卡拉曼的标准,比如取10%。以茅台为例,若合理估值为每股2000元(此处仅为举例),那么买入区间为1400~1200元。若腾讯的合理估值为每股520港币(此处仅为举例),那么买入区间为312~364港币。至于更高的安全边际,比如5折或4折的买入标准,并不太适合部署存量资金,因为这可能意味着极其漫长的等待或者错过。当这种机会出现时,如果恰好有新增资金,自然可以买入,但这主要取决于运气,可遇不可求。芒格提醒我们,除了关注赌注是否公平,赔率也很重要。我的理解是,若一个一般的生意,未来可能价值毁灭,亏损100%,但也有50%的概率会大幅盈利,赚个400%,那也值得参与,因为从概率上来讲期望盈利是150%,如果持有时间不长,预期年化收益率非常高。不过我要指出一点,这样的赌局一定不能重仓,因为如果负面预期形成了,会造成不可挽回的结果。芒格的这段表述也印证了我近期的观点,投资并不只是简单持有几家公认的伟大企业,专业的投资者有责任去积极寻找错误定价的机会,但是只有确定性极高的选择才可以重仓。
延伸阅读:
戳关注,右上角菜单栏● ● ●键,设为星标