担任采访
为孩子们写作，一直都是你的志向吗？
最初，我感兴趣的是创作插画书。说实话，刚刚起步时，我没有真正考虑过读者的感受。这对我来说还是一个相当模糊的概念。同许多插画家一样，我接到一个项目就着手画插图，稍后阶段才会注意到关于读者的问题。但是，将文字和图画结合起来的愿望引领我顺理成章地进入了儿童图书出版行业。今天，我很清楚地知道自己在同谁对话，我想用孩子的方式来讲故事。
“用孩子的方式”是指什么？
用孩子的方式写作，意味着走上了一条狭窄的小径，既要浅显易懂，又不能过于简单化。这是一条苛刻的要求。孩子们对世界的体验与成年人不同，作品必须在孩子们能够理解的范围内，同时也要相信孩子们的智慧。信任孩子很重要，你不会总是站在他们身边给他们讲故事。
“用孩子的方式写作，意味着走上了一条狭窄的小径，既要浅显易懂，又不能过于简单化”
我们与孩子对话时，会自然而然地同他们保持在同一水平上，以便相互理解。在学校教室里举办讲座时，我常常觉得有必要俯下身子或是弯下腰，这样孩子们才会认为我确实是在认真听他们说话。写作时也一样，作家必须把自己放在与孩子们平等的位置上。
另外，儿童读物具有特殊性——既要面向儿童，又要面向成人。作家必须同时面对两位读者——朗读者（通常是成年人）和倾听者，有时对其中一个人说话，有时对另一个人说话。
© 戴尔芬·佩雷/红蚂蚁出版社（Delphine Perret / Les Fourmis Rouges）, 2016 插图选自《小熊比约》（Björn, Six Bear Stories）。
有哪些书或艺术家对你产生过影响？
小时候，我沉迷于英国漫画家昆汀·布雷克（Quentin Blake）描绘的世界。不久前，我又一次看到了布雷克的画，童年的感受再次涌上心头，依然渴望走进他画的房子，去会一会他笔下的那些人物。我也非常喜欢菲利浦·科朗坦（Philippe Corentin）和让-雅克·桑贝（Jean-Jacques Sempé）的书。我喜欢栩栩如生的人物形象和具有强烈暗示性的画面。
这些插画家都对我产生了影响，不过，童年时喜欢的东西和如今作为一名漫画家喜欢的东西是不一样的。我的画可以说是徘徊在小时候喜欢的书和如今身为画家的我渴望探索的某些艺术形式之间。必须在这两者之间找到适当的平衡点。如果一味探索，就会切断与读者的联系；如果只考虑到读者，在作画时就会丧失某些创造力。
在书中，你是如何安排文字与图画之间的关系的？
这是两种不同的语言。图画和文字应该尽可能相辅相成。有些内容用文字表达比较好，有些更适合用图画来表达。同时运用这两种表达方式是必要的。有时，我本不想把某些场景画出来，但又不得不画，因为我觉得读者肯定想看。例如，《比约恩：六个熊的故事》（Björn, Six Bear Stories）中有这样一幕，一只野兔正在打牌。由于文字部分已经交代了这个场景，把兔子画出来其实并不会给故事添彩，但我认为读者肯定想看到这个画面。作为一名插画家，能够把这幅画展现给读者，对我来说也是一种享受。
在插画书中，作者还可以利用文字和图画之间的差异。以《了不起的牛仔的故事》（Une super histoire de cow-boy）为例，书中插图表现的故事与文字部分叙述的故事截然不同。同一本书里存在着文字、图画，以及文字与图画之间的碰撞，由后者开启了第三种可能性。
你在动笔之前是否已经有了完整的创意，还是一边创作一边构思？
在创作时，我首先想到的通常是主题、文本和概念。紧接着，书中的内容在我的脑海中渐渐成形，变得清晰起来。我必须在很短时间内把这些内容画下来。例如，在创作《了不起的牛仔的故事》时，我试着调整文字和画面，让它们分别讲述两个不同的故事，想看看这样做效果如何。《世上最美的夏天》（Le Plus Bel Été du Monde）则是出于我对风景画的热爱，直到画完之后我才想出了故事情节。我想讲一个夏日里时间流逝的故事。于是，我放弃了惯用的黑白线条画风，改用了水彩画。顺便说一句，这本书并没有按照我最初构想的方向发展。你不得不承认，书有时会找到自己的方向。
有时你会在学校举办讲座，与读者的这种接触让你有了哪些收获？
与读者见面总是很有趣的，因为作者在这些时刻可以意识到，读者对这本书的理解与自己的构想是否相同，这中间是否遗漏了某些内容，孩子们读到的是否为另一个完全不同的故事。书一旦出版，就不再完全属于我们了，书有自己的生存方式。
“在与读者见面时，作者可以意识到读者对这本书的理解与自己的构想是否相同”
孩子们读了我的一些作品后，会与这些书之间建立某种联结，形成某种默契。我有时会举办插画书朗读会，当孩子们提前说出我要读的文字时，那真是莫大的快乐。就像是我从一扇门走进来，他们从另一扇门走进来，我们一起站在房间里，我请孩子们进入一个虚构的世界，孩子们欣然同意置身其中。
“The collision between text and image opens up a third field of possibilities”
Author and illustrator Delphine Perret, winner of multiple awards, has published some 30 books in which text and images engage in a subtle dialogue of humour and delicacy that leaves plenty of room for the reader's imagination.
Interview by Agnès Bardon
Despite a population of 1.4 billion people, the number of celebrities in this immense country is tiny – mostly confined to Bollywood stars – and the market for children’s books is also small. Yet the phenomenon is real: more and more celebrities in India are writing books for children. Was it always your intention to write for children?
Initially, I was interested in doing illustrated books. To tell the truth, when I started out, I wasn't really thinking about the reader. It was a rather vague notion for me. Like a lot of illustrators, I'd embark on a project and ask myself the question of the recipient at a later stage. But the desire to create objects combining text and image led me quite naturally to work for children's publishing. Today, however, I know to whom I'm talking. I want to tell stories at a child's level.
What do you mean by “at a child's level”?
Writing at a child's level means being on a narrow path that needs to be intelligible without being simplistic. It's an exacting requirement. Children don't have the same experience of the world as adults, so you have to put yourself within their reach, while trusting their intelligence. It's important to trust them, because you won't be standing next to them to tell the story.
"Writing at a child's level means being on a narrow path that needs to be intelligible without being simplistic"
When we talk to children, we naturally tend to place ourselves at their level to establish complicity with them. When I run workshops in classrooms, I often feel the need to crouch or bend down so that the child feels I'm really listening to them. It's a bit like that when you're writing; you have to put yourself in a position of equality with them.
At the same time, children's books have the particularity of being aimed at both children and adults. So you have to speak to two readers at once – the reader, usually an adult, and the listener – and sometimes address one and sometimes the other.
What books or artists have influenced you?
As a child, I loved immersing myself in the world of British cartoonist Quentin Blake. Recently, I came across his drawings again, and I had the same feeling as then, the same desire to enter the house he's drawing, to meet his characters. I've also really enjoyed reading books by Philippe Corentin or Jean-Jacques Sempé. I like it when the characters are very much alive and the image has a strong suggestive power.
These illustrators have influenced me, but I differentiate between what I liked as a child and what I like today as a cartoonist. My drawings are the result of a back-and-forth between the books I would have liked to read as a child and my desire to explore certain forms as a designer. You have to find the right balance between the two. If you only explore, you cut yourself off from your reader, and if you only think about the reader, you deprive yourself of a certain graphic creativity.
How do you organize the relationship between text and images in your books?
They're two different languages. The image should be complementary to the text wherever possible. Some things are better said with words, others with drawings. You have to play with both modes of expression. Sometimes, too, I don't feel like drawing certain scenes, but I am compelled to because I feel the reader will absolutely want to see them. I'm thinking, for example, of a passage in my book Björn, Six Bear Stories, where a hare is playing cards. Depicting this hare doesn't really add to the story, because the scene is already described in the text, but it seemed to me that the reader would want to see it. And as an illustrator, it was a treat for me to show it to the reader.
In an illustrated book, you can also play on the discrepancy between text and image. In Une super histoire de cow-boy [A terrific cowboy story], for example, the drawn story is very different from the one told in the text. There's the text, the image and the collision of the two, which opens up a third field of possibilities.
Do you come up with the ideas for your books before the project begins, or along the way?
When I'm working on a project, the theme, the text, the concept always come first. Right after, everything starts to take shape in my head. I need to visualize the book object very quickly in order to bring it into existence. For example, when I embarked on Une super histoire de cow-boy, I wanted to see what it would be like if I shifted the text and image to the point where they were almost two different stories. My book Le Plus Bel Été du Monde [The most beautiful summer in the world], on the other hand, was born of a desire to draw landscapes. It was only afterwards that I came up with the story. I also wanted to tell the story of the passing of time, of summer. As a result, I used watercolour instead of black and white line drawing, which is my usual style. Incidentally, the project didn't go in the direction I'd originally planned. You have to accept that sometimes the book becomes a path.
You sometimes run workshops in schools. What have you learned from these encounters with your readers?
It's always interesting to meet your readers, because these are moments when you can see if the book has been perceived as you imagined it would be, if things have been lost along the way, or if the child has told himself another story. Once the book is out, it no longer belongs to us completely; it lives its own life.
"Meetings with readers are moments when you can see if the book has been perceived as you imagined it would be"
When children have read some of my books, a bond is immediately established. I sometimes do illustrated readings, and when the children know the lines in advance, it's a real pleasure. It's as if I've entered through one door, they come in through another, and we find ourselves in the middle of the room, in the fictional world I’ve invited them into and which they've agreed to be part of.
©️该文章及图片版权归联合国教科文《信使》杂志所有
欢迎分享到朋友圈
转载及合作请联系我们
wechat.unescocourier@gmail.com
