“我试着用Chat-GPT写一篇演讲稿，想写一些有趣的句子，但为了使它不那么无趣，我几乎重写了一遍(...) 我想强调的是，我指导了它的生成方式。”

——Ruth Schagemann

I've tried to write a talk using Chat-GPT ,interesting sentences but I re-wrote almost everything to make it less boring (...) and direct it the way,I wanted to highlight.

——Ruth Schagemann

 前情提要 

在这个快速变化的时代，建筑似乎有点跟不上脚步了，建筑曾经历了工业革命、建筑标准化建设再到如今高速迭代的信息化革命，又发展到如今的可持续性设计时代，建筑的发展从未停止脚步，仿佛在紧紧追随时代的进度；

In these times of fast change, the architecture may be a little behind and has experienced the industrial revolution, standardized construction of buildings, and now the high-speed iterative information revolution, and now the era of sustainable design, the development of architecture has never stopped, as if it is closely following the progress of The Times.

“有多少位建筑师外出工作？”

“他们从事什么类型的项目？”

“他们能赚多少钱？”

“过去的职业有何变化？”

“未来会发生怎样的变化？

为了弄清楚这些问题并且更清楚了解“建筑”，Nona 开启了《超越建筑》的人物专访计划，Nona的创始人的目标是探索超越建筑的打破边界的业务。

“How many architects are out there?”

“What type of projects do they do?“

“How much do they earn?“

“How did the profession change in the past?“

“How is it going to change in the future?“

In order to clarify the problem and understand "architecture" more clearly, Nona started the "Beyond Architecture" profile project,and the founders of Nona aim to explore boundary-breaking businesses beyond architecture.

 Nona专访 

Luca de Stefano, 作为Nona的创始人之一，介绍了在建筑行业探索商业视角的概念。

Luca de Stefano, one of the founders of Nona, introduces the concept of exploring business perspectives in the architecture industry.

在第一集中，我们将把建筑视为一个行业，试图从商业角度理解它的过去和未来。我们通过欧洲建筑师委员会在 2022 年行业研究中收集的数据和专业知识来做这一点论证。

In this first episode we will look at architecture as an industry, trying to understand its past and future from a business perspective. We do this through the data and expertise gathered by the Architects Council of Europe in their 2022 Sector Study. 

欧洲建筑师委员会（ACE）是欧洲建筑专业的代表组织，30多年来一直充当欧洲机构内建筑专业的统一代言人。我们的这次的嘉宾是建筑师理事会主席。凭借她多年来为建筑师辩护的经验，她将帮助我们从不同的角度看待建筑行业，重点关注即将发生的变化和重大颠覆。

The Architects’ Council of Europe (ACE) is the representative organisation for the architectural profession at European level, acting for more than 30 years as the unified voice of the architectural profession within the European institutions. Our guest is the President of the council. Counting on her many years of experience advocating for architects, she will help us look at the architectural profession from a different perspective, with a focus on imminent changes and major disruptions. 

今天，我们在《超越建筑》中与Ruth Schagemann共同探讨。

 嘉宾简介 

“建筑师的洞察力，他所做的工作以及所创造的价值，都陷入了阴影之中，他对客户和行业都不太清楚。”

——Ruth Schagemann

“The perception of the architect. the work he does, and the value he creates, has run into the shadows,and is not so clear to the clients and industry."

——Ruth Schagemann

Ruth Schagemann（生于 1974 年）是一位建筑师，曾在德国布伦瑞克大学和斯图加特大学学习建筑学。

2006s，她与丈夫共同创立了建筑师事务所 VICEVERSA  Architektur + Medien。

2016s—2021s，她被选为欧洲建筑师委员会（ACE）执行委员会成员、欧洲建筑师主管机构网络（ENACA）协调员、德国联邦建筑师协会欧洲协调小组成员是“巴登-符腾堡州”商会国家和国际专业政策部门的负责人。

自 2022 年 1 月 1 日起，她担任欧洲建筑师委员会 (ACE) 主席;

2004 年获得斯图加特大学建筑学文凭，自 2008 年起成为“巴登-符腾堡州”建筑师协会会员。

Ruth Schagemann, (b. 1974) is an architect who studied architecture at the University of Braunschweig and at the University of Stuttgart in Germany. 

In 2006 she founded the Architect’s office VICEVERSA Architektur + Medien together with her husband. 

She was elected member of the executive board of the Architects` Council of Europe (ACE) from 2016 until 2021, Coordinator of the European Network of Architects` Competent Authorities (ENACA), member of the Coordination Group Europe of the Federal Chamber of German Architects and is head of department of national and international professional policy at the Chamber of Baden-Württemberg. 

Since 1. January 2022 she is the President of Architects’ Council of Europe (ACE). Diploma in architecture, University of Stuttgart, 2004 and Membership in the Chamber of Architects of Baden-Württemberg, since 2008.

 专访进行 

今日访谈 | 第一集 | 第一部分

Speaking today, Episode One, part one.

Luca：

为什么你们需要一整个部门做研究,要投入这么多时间和精力来收集这些数据?

Why do we need a sector study like ,why do you guys invest so much time and effort into putting together all this data?

Ruth：

我们是建筑师，是欧洲的建筑师。我们在欧洲代表着60多万建筑师，这意味着建筑师们的工作室在欧洲做了很多工作。有一个概览对我们是非常重要的，我们不仅要知道建筑师们在处理哪些主题，还要知道我们共有多少主题?建筑师们与工作室有什么关系?这个市场到底有多大?

Look for us as architects and as the architects counts of Europe.We represent over 600,000 architects in Europe, meaning they are doing with their offices a lot of work in Europe.And it is really important to have an overview, not only about which topics they are dealing with, but how many are we?What ties do the offices have?How big is the market?

Luca：

好的，你说到基本上是四个国家培养了欧洲大部分的建筑师，它们包括意大利、德国、法国和英国。

因为我自己就是意大利人。很多人都在谈论这样一个事实：我们在意大利有太多的建筑师，而他们最终像我一样在国外工作。您是否对此有别的看法？例如，有多少真正的专业人士在一个国家获得许可证后转移到另一个国家？

Okay,so you said that basically, like four countries contribute to most architects in Europe, and they were Italy, Germany, France, and UK.

I'm myself Italian. There is a lot of talking about the fact that we have way too many architects in Italy, and that they end up, like myself, working abroad.And do you maybe have some indication on that?Like, how many of the actual professionals get a license in a country and move to another?

Ruth：

是的，我认为，我们在欧洲只有 8% 的工作是跨国工作。这就是我们在欧洲的奇妙情况，我们共同拥有一个服务市场，因此欧洲的自由流动性非常重要。因此，如果您是自己办公室的请愿者，并且您向另一个国家/地区提供服务，但也可以是 在就业方面，还有你在不同的国家寻找工作。

Yes, we have only, I think it's 8% work in another country in Europe。This is the fantastic situation that we have in Europe,that we have a service market together, and therefore the free mobility in Europe is really important.

So if you are a petitioner in your own office and you deliver service into another country, but it can also be in the element of being employed, also that you look for a job in a different country.

Luca：

(...)然后你之前也提到过，建筑市场和建筑服务市场之间存在这种比例增长的事实。所以，如果我们建造的更多，相应的建筑师也赚更多，基本上，如果我把它想成非常简单，那么，在这个建筑服务市场中，顶尖的项目是什么样的？建筑师就业机会最多的行业是哪些？

(...)And then you mentioned as well before, the fact that there is this kind of proportional growth between construction markets and architectural service markets.So if we build more architects earn more, basically, if I make it very simple, yes, um, out of this architectural service market, what are the top projects like?What are the sectors where architects have the most job opportunities?

Ruth：

嗯，目前的情况是，确实有很多建筑师正在研究独栋建筑，如果我们关注气候变化，未来的气候适应能力，以及气候诉讼的问题，那么我们真的要重新思考建筑行业的建筑领域，我们将如何在未来建造更多的新房子或建筑?

Well, the situation at the moment is that really a lot of architects are working on single housing.If we look at climate change, climate resilience for the future, and climate litigation, then we really have to rethink the construction field of the construction sector, because how are we going to build more new um houses or buildings in the future?

另外，你提到的第二点是独栋建筑真的是未来提供服务的部门吗?因为我们正在讨论，如何缩小土地的使用面积，在城市中更合理地规划利用土地，从而促进发展，例如工业区，那就意味着我们可能在未来走向不同的方向，我们必须为此做好准备。

And also, the 2nd point that you mentioned is single family housing really the sector of delivering services of the future? Not because if we discuss about not using up so much land and trying to be more dense in our cities to revitalize, e.g.industrial areas, that means that we might be heading in the future into a different direction, and we have to prepare for that.

Luca：

(...)我听到了三个议程，你提到了碳足迹，提到了现有的存量建筑和社区，我想在政策建议方面以及在能力建设方面，我们应该皆是如此。我听到了吗?对吧?

(...)I hear three points agenda.You mentioned Carbon footprint. You mentioned existing building stock and neighborhoods and communities.So this is what should have been working on, in terms of policy advice, I guess.And also in terms of capacity building.Do I hear you? Right? 

Ruth：

是的，当然正确。我们已经研究了两年了。你可以想象，在欧洲背景下，这实际上是关于建立信任，建立对欧洲议员的信任，建立对欧盟委员会的信任，然后还通过我们的成员组织建立对其政府的信任，因为这些都是第一部分所提及的，欧洲理事会责任范畴。

Yes, absolutely.And we are working on this since already two years.And you can imagine that, let's say, in the European context, it's really about trust building, trust building towards European parliamentarians, trust building towards the European Commission, and then also trust building through our member organizations towards their governments, because these are in the European Council at the 1st side.

Luca：

那么这是否意味着，当您或多或少提到的由 ACE 代表并活跃在欧洲的 620000 名建筑师时，您实际上只计算了通过与欧洲建筑师委员会合作的组织获得许可的建筑师。

So would that mean that when you mention 620000 architects more or less, being represented by by the ACE and being active in Europe, you're actually counting only licensed architects through the organizations that partnered up with the ACE.

我的意思是，这可能是一个很难的问题，但是你知道有多少人实际上是从建筑学毕业的吗？是否那些获得许可证并成为你的成员之一的人，与那些实际获得学位并最终围绕建筑做一些事情的人之间存在很大差异？

I mean, this is maybe a hard question, but do you have any idea of how many people actually graduate from architecture?And if there is a big discrepancy between the ones that get licensed and get through your numbers and the ones that actually get a degree and end up doing something around architecture？

Ruth：

这是我们想要的数字，但我们无法提供，因为我们的成员组织不是学校，而是商会、协会或工会。我们现在正在与欧洲农业经济学家协会进行谈判，欧洲农业经济学家协会是欧洲学校的代表。总统非常积极地致力于为学校开展此类研究。因此，这将是他们职责范围内的一个问题。是的，我们想了解更多相关信息，但目前我们还没有。

That we would like to have, but we can't provide it because our member organizations are not schools.They are chambers, associations or unions.And we are now in talks with the E-A-A-E, that's the representation of the European schools.And the president is quite active working on trying to develop such a kind of study for the schools.So this would be one question in their field of responsibility.And yes, we would like to know more about it, but for the time being, we don't have this.

 文末结语 

好的，我们到了第一部分的结尾。我们看到了很多有趣的数字。我想现在您已经非常了解欧洲市场今天的运作方式了。让我分享一些我认为在全球范围内可能是很有趣的数字。

OK, we are at the end of the 1st part.We went through lots of interesting numbers.I think by now you understood quite well how the European market is working today.Let me share a few numbers that I think could be interesting worldwide.

第一个是，到 2022 年，美国将有大约 116000 名建筑师获得许可。所以我们可以说，这几乎是目前在欧洲获得许可和运营的建筑师的六分之一。请注意，当我们讨论增长时，如今还有更多人在建筑领域内运作。我以荷兰为例，在那里很多拥有建筑学位的人实际上并没有获得许可证，但仍然每天在工作和设计建筑项目。同样的情况可能会发生在我们身边或其他国家。

1st, there is around 116000 architects licensed in the US in 2022.So we could say it's almost one 6th of the architects that are currently licensed and operating in Europe.Keep in mind that as we discuss with with growth, there is many more that are operating today within the realm of architecture.I make example of the Netherlands, where lots of people with architectural degrees don't actually get license, but work and design architectural projects every day.Same might happen in us or in other countries.

第二个有趣的数字。根据国际建筑师联盟的统计，几年前，世界上大约有 130 万持证建筑师。这些数据来自大约 124 个国家和与该联盟有联系的相关组织。所以我们可以想象现在有一些国家有许可代表，而且很多人没有获得许可，但在工业界运营。因此，作为粗略估计，如果我们想要猜测一下，今天有多少建筑师？

2nd interesting number. So according to the International Union of Architects, a few years back, the where around 1.3 million licensed architects in the world.This data came from around 124 countries and related organizations that are connected to the Union.So we could imagine there is countries that are now represented, and once again, a lot of people not being licensed, but operating in industry.So as a rough estimate, if we wanna guess, OK, how many architects are out there today?

嗯，没有任何官方消息表明。我们花了相当长的时间调查它，但我们可以知道的是，大概在一百万到三百五十万之间。这是一个很大的范围。这是一个很大的数字。建筑师的概念可能会因国家/地区的不同而有所不同。因此很难将其缩小到特定数字。但是你可以保留这个，这个大的范围参数。如果我们选择中间的某个数字，我们可以说 250 万，这就是要追求的数字。

Well, there isn't any official source.We spent quite some time looking into it, but what we could tell is that roughly we could be in the range of million to 3.5 million.It's a big range. It's a big number.The very notion of architect might vary and change from country to country.Therefore is quite hard to narrow it down just specific number.But you could keep this delta, this big range as you go to parameter.If we pick something in the middle, we could say 2.5 million, that's the number to go for.

最后一点，正如您从Ruth那里听到的那样，建筑市场总量和建筑服务市场与之成比例增长。这意味着理论上，我们可以对全球经济应用相同的比率和相同的逻辑。

One last note, as you heard from Ruth, the construction market gross and the architectural service market grows proportionally to it.It means that in theory, we could apply the same ratio and the same logic for the global economy.

因此，全球建筑市场对于我们来说可能是一个很好且有趣的指标。建筑服务市场有多大？有很多市场研究，其中许多都在出售，而且相当昂贵。我们调查了需要大约 1000 美元才能买到一份。但如果您非常感兴趣，请继续购买一份，如果您有任何发现，如果您有任何有趣的发现，请分享给我们。

Therefore, the global construction market could be a nice and interesting indicator for us to examine it.How big is the architectural service market?

There is lots of market studies out there.Many of them are for sale and are quite expensive.We investigated it around $1000 to get one.But if you are very interested, go ahead purchase one, and please let us know if you find anything interesting.

《超越建筑》| 人物专访，欢迎向我们分享任何发现！

敬请期待《超越建筑》第一集 | 第二部分，我们下期见！

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