成都设计师提问施德明：设计可以更“松活”吗？

——从现代与国际性到后现代与地方性

“全球化有一个副作用是，它开始让世界各地看起来都一样。”

如今很多设计作品与设计师品牌都希望在视觉传达中表现地方/文化色彩，您如何看待地方性与现代设计的结合？其积极意义和局限性在何处？

在纽约，我对跟我们类似的外国设计毫无兴趣。对我们来说，那些扎根于本土文化、具备不同特点的作品要有趣得多。全球化带来很多好处，但有一个副作用就是，它让世界各地开始看起来都一样了。我觉得每个地方都应该留有独特的视觉差异和文化多样性。

作为设计师，我们有责任扎根于我们的民族文化来对抗这一现象。这会让我们的作品更在地，也更受其他文化的赞赏。

We in New York have zero interest in seeing work designed in foreign countries that looks like ours. Work that is different and rooted in loacl cultures is MUCH more interesting to us. 
In general, I am very aware that globalization brought many advantages to many people around the world. One of its unintended side effects is that the world starts to look the same everywhere. I’ve never met anyone who is happy about this, we all want to preserve the unique visual differences and diversities of different places. We as designers have a responsibility to fight for this by concentrating on strategies that are rooted in our own heritage. This will also make our work stronger locally and more admired abroad.

落到成都，很多人说这座城市的松弛是一种「乐天」的处事心态与地方精神，成都人会以“Don’t really care”来避免自我消耗以重新获得生活的掌控权 。您怎样理解“松弛感”？您对于这次成都之行有什么期待？

我纽约的中国朋友说成都非常好，它被看作中国说唱音乐的发源地。每次我提起要去成都的时候，大家都说你会喜欢的，尤其是食物，所以我很期待探访这座城市。

Chengdu has a fantastic reputation among my Chinese friends in New York, it is known as the place where Chinese rap is originating from. Whenever I mentioned that I am going to visit it, people said you are going to love it, specially the food. So I am looking very much forward to get to know it first-hand myself.

您如何看待与成都在地设计团队在平行展区中的“隔空对话”？A4X艺术中心与其载体麓湖生态城一直致力于“社区策展”“艺术驻留”等课题的发展，您如何看待这一点？

我迫不及待想看到这个平行展。我们曾参与过类似的项目，比如由设计师诠释我们的系列主题“Things I’ve Learned in my Life”，效果非常不错。

I cant wait to see the results in this parallel exhibition. We have participated in similar initiatives in the past where designers interpreted themes we were working on such as the “Things I’ve Learned in my Life” series. There were some beautiful results.

——从艺术实现到商业成功

“艺术不需要有用，它可以只是存在。”

您的过往作品中不仅有偏重艺术与概念表达的设计，还广泛参与了电影置景、家具、海报和书籍设计等多个领域。在这些更接近日常生活的设计创作中，是否会采用不同的思维方式？在非商业设计中探索获得的设计经验与灵感，是如何转换到商业设计中的？

唐纳德·贾德说：“设计必须有作用，艺术不必。”他的意思是，艺术不需要有用，它可以只是存在。这是有关艺术和设计的区别中，我最喜欢的定义。对很多人来说，这是一种解脱，因为我们可以享受一些“什么都不做”的东西。而设计，尤其是商业设计必须有功能。现在我们创作的都是非商业设计。这并不是因为我突然开始讨厌商业工作，其实我非常欣赏好的商业工作，只是我觉得我已经做了我该做的，现在想要尝试新的领域。

我们商业和非商业两个方向同时做的时候，后者总是对前者有很大影响，因为没有客户提要求、没有压力会更容易尝试新的东西。一旦效果不错，我们就会把非商业作品展示给能够欣赏它的新颖性、会愿意在项目里运用它的客户。

My favorite definition about the difference between art and design comes from Donald Judd who said: Design has to work. Art does not. He means that art really does not have to do anything, it can just be. I think for many of us as viewers this comes as a relief: We can enjoy something that does nothing.
At the same time design and specially commercial design has to have a function, it has to do something. Right now all we create are non-commercial designs. This is not because I suddenly started to hate commercial work - in fact I have great admiration for good commercial work - its just that I felt I had done my share of it and wanted to try out new frontiers for myself.

But when we still did both directions, commercial and non-commercial work, the non-commercial was always a big influence on the commercial side. Its simply easier to try something new out when there is less pressure for it to perform well and no clinet is attached to it. Once it has proven to work, we often then showed the non-commercial work to clients who appreciated its newness and wanted some of thsi wo work for them.

设计的创造性和功利性一定是背道而驰的吗？您如何平衡个人风格与商业需求（客户、市场偏好）之间的关系？当两者发生冲突时，如何取舍？

做商业项目的时候，我们会花很多时间和客户深入讨论作品或活动的目的，因为我们所做的一切都是为了达到这个目的。

常规的手段对观众来说往往很无聊，消费者每天都会被数千（这个数字变化很快）条信息轰炸，但其实我们已经很擅长屏蔽这些信息。

When we did commercial work, we talked long and hard with the client about the goals for the piece or the campaign. Everything we then did was in service of reaching these goals. It was often an advantage to try to reach these goals with unconventional strategies, as the conventional are often boring to an audience. It is often said that the average consumer is bombarded by thousands (the number frequently changes) of messages every day. This might be the case but I believe we have all become very good at blocking almost every one of these messages.

在您的作品中我们感受到理性与感性并存，天马行空的创意和强大的执行力。以您「“True Majority”Double Bus」作品为例，想了解您是如何平衡商业价值和艺术表现力，以及其中的创作思考。

Double Bus 是为 “True majority”设计的，这是由Ben & Jerry’s冰淇淋公司创始人Ben Cohen发起的倡议。他组织了500名商界领袖、CEO和军事顾问参与，目的是削减15%的五角大楼预算，把它转移到教育和医疗保健上。

我觉得在预算问题上商界领袖更容易得到公众的信任，而且他们确实有营销经验，这样成功的几率就很大。我来自奥地利，那里的军事预算只占联邦预算的1%，而现在美国已经超过50%，所以我想做点什么。

我们让志愿者在美国各地驾驶双层巴士，因为它的形状很不寻常，地方新闻节目的主持人不得不向大家解释这是怎么回事，所以我们赚了很多免费的媒体报导。

The Double Bus was designed for "True majority”, an initiative by Ben Cohen of Ben & Jerry's ice cream fame. He assembled a group of 500 business leaders, CEO's and military advisers with the goal to cut 15% of the Pentagon budget and move it over to education and health care.
I felt a group of business leaders will have credibility with the public in budget matters, furthermore they do have marketing experience, which meant the possibilities of success (reaching the goal) were good. I come from Austria where the military budget amounts to 1% of the federal budget, living in the US where at the moment it is over 50% made me try to do something about it.
The double bus was driven around the United States by volunteers: Because of its unusual shape it wound up on many local news shows where the anchor woman has to explain what this is all about, thus generating considerable unpaid media coverage. The message was: Cut the Pentagon budget, double the education budget.

——从数字到场景

“好的视觉设计作品应该帮助人，并让人愉悦。”

在您近年来的作品中，您关注了不同国家城市的很多典型公共议题。在对这些议题、数据素材作艺术转换时，您觉得尊重数据的客观性呈现重要，还是说服观众理解设计师主张更重要？

这完全取决于具体情况。如果挂在画廊或博物馆里，我们可以隐晦一些，让感兴趣的观众扫二维码。如果是在衣服上做这些可视化数据，我们会在里面加一个标签，穿的人就可以向任何好奇的人解释。如果是海报，我们会直接在海报上解释数据。

It totally depends on the situation and context. If the piece is hanging in a gallery or museum, we can be more opaque, as we can count that a viewer who is interested might check out a QR code. If we do these data visulizations on clothing, we usually add a label inside, so the person who wears the piece can explain it to anybody who asks. If the piece is a poster, we usually explain the data right on the poster.

您认为视觉类设计作品应该具备哪些特质才能打动观众？或者说视觉类设计作品如何突破其叙事边界，从而打造更深层次的对话？

一个好的视觉设计作品应该能帮助人，并让人愉悦。如果它能同时做到这两点，那就太棒了。

A good piece of visual design should help someone and delight someone. If it can do both its great.

——从生活洞察到灵感表达

“随机选择一个东西，然后从它出发开始思考。”

您曾提到“伟大的创意可以来自任何地点和任何时间”，您是如何在生活日常中，汲取不同创作领域中的灵感？是否可以通过一件您记忆深刻或者最满意的作品，描述一下其从生活的洞察、灵感诞生到设计转换与作品落地的过程经历？

说到想法，我经常运用思想家开发的方法：

随机选择一个东西，然后从它出发，开始思考。

这个策略来自Edward De Bono（马耳他哲学家和思想家），我们最成功的一些项目就运用了这个方法。它是这样操作的：假如我要为一个（环顾四周）……讲台做设计，我不会用平常的方法，而是从一些随机的东西开始思考，比如（环顾四周）……水。水，冒泡，是透明的——也许我们可以做一个玻璃讲台，里面有鱼，有点像直立的水族馆，对观众来说它不会太分散注意力。因为我只花了30秒思考，所以这个结果还不错。

因为我们的大脑很懒惰，思考会消耗大量能量，所以当我们要求它提出一个新想法时，为了避免消耗能量，它会提供神经细胞里已经有大量连接的路径，这种路径往往来自我过去的想法，或者我以前见过的其他人的想法。而从新的地方开始会迫使大脑创造一条预先不存在的新路径，你最后还是会想出一个点子，但你从不同起点出发，走一条与以往不同的路线。

Tony Buzan有一种完全相反的方法，就是把所有的想法、研究、创意都整理在一个页面上。我会在一张大纸的中央写下PODIUM（讲台）这个词，在它周围画一个框，然后写上我所知道的任何关于讲台的内容——有风格、材料、颜色、用途、讲台高度、相关的笑话、制造商，还会和演讲者讨论他们对讲台的喜恶，直到把所有内容写尽。

When it comes to ideas, I often use a method developed by bigger thinker than me: Pick anything at random and start thinking about your idea from there.
This odd strategy was developed by the Maltese philosopher and thinker Edward De Bono. I’ve used it many times, - some of our most successful projects are a direct results of his technique. Here is how it works: Say I have to come up with an idea for a…..[looking around] …a podium. Instead of what I normally would do, looking at other podiums, interviewing people who produce or use podiums, I start thinking about an idea for a new podium with something random, say a [looking around] …water. 
Water. It bubbles up. It’s transparent. Maybe we could have a glass podium with fish in it, sort of an upright aquarium. Not too distractive to an audience but better than this thing. Not bad, considering it took me 30 seconds of thinking.
De Bono explains how this works: Our brain is lazy. Thinking consumes a lot of energy. So when we ask the brain to come up with a new idea, - the brain tries to avoid spending that energy. It offers us pathways where there already are lots of connections between the nerve cells: The most connections tend to come from ideas I’ve had myself in the past, or from a other people’s ideas I’ve seen before. 
Starting somewhere new forces the brain to create a new path, with no pre-existing connections. You will still end up with an idea for a podium, but now you’re using a different route from different starting point.

Another idea generating method is the opposite approach of DeBono: Tony Buzan developed this technique that allows me to get all my thoughts, all my research, all my ideas down into one sense-making page. So if I still need an idea for a podium, I would write the word PODIUM into the center of a large sheet of paper, draw a box around it, and then add connecting boxes about anything I know about podiums. 
There would be a section on podium styles, on materialities, on color, usage, podium heights, jokes about podium heights, I’d write down podium makers, talk to speakers on what they hate and love about podiums, completely exhaust the theme of podium. 

AI技术如今正在快速“入侵”各个行业领域，您如何看待这一技术对创意工作的意义？它对未来的设计与艺术生态会有怎样的影响？AI带来的信息穿透是否会代替日常中的生活洞察？

我一直不太擅长预测主流技术。就在一年前，我还说VR正在走向衰落，而现在我每天都在使用一个叫做SuperNatural的虚拟现实健身应用训练。AI会越来越强大，它将在我们行业的基础领域发挥很大的作用，甚至可能会取代一部分工作。如果你现在正在设计普通的网站，那就要当心了。

 In the past I’ve been an unsuccessful predicator of dominant technologies. Only one year ago I would have said VR is on its way out, and now I’m training every day using a fantastic workout app called SuperNatural in virtual reality. AI will be bigger. AI will play a huge role for the lower end of our profession, possibly killing that segment. If you are designing middle of the road websites right now, watch out.