这学期在奥地利交换。公寓同层楼有很多美国人。平常遇见他们，女孩们经常是成群出现，大声畅聊、吃东西，到厨房做饭拿一个JBL蓝牙音箱大声外放、跟着扭扭身子，在房间里面，有时会唱卡拉OK，声音隐约传到门外。而少有的几个美国男生，要么一头卷发看起来非常艺术，要么留一撇胡子、经常带着头戴式耳机，看起来很斯文(确实也是学人文社科的)但也都经常手里拿着喝完/没喝完的酒瓶出现在公共空间，经常喝酒思考人生的样子。美国人出现在宿舍里总是一惊一乍、风风火火的，不只是隔壁印度夫妇，连同层楼来奥地利学德语的美国大叔 Eric 都嫌他们太吵了。
有时候他们太e了，会使人突然社恐。但总体上，我倒觉得美国人还挺有活力的——至少很愿意和人交谈，经常路过会主动和人打招呼，“How was your day?” 经过一段时间，慢慢眼熟彼此之后，我和一位叫Romi的非常健谈、热情的女孩相约一次coffee talk，原定的话题并不是政治。
美国大选刚刚拉开序幕，中欧时间11月5日晚上，这些美国学生拿出许多食物和酒水，扎堆坐在公共空间聊天、讨论。大选是他们生活里一项重要议程。
11月6日，第二天早上，大选结果基本尘埃落定，我和Romi计划的聊天时间也到了。我在公共客厅见到Romi的时候，感觉她已经哭过，马上又要哭出来，说话带着哭腔。于是我走上前去拥抱她。后面中途出现的几个美国女生，也都一脸阴郁、眼眶红红。有一阵子，我们还抱在了一起。
我临时决定搁置原定的话题，就和她聊聊这次大选。
我们可能都不是很懂政治，但因为与他们生活空间的交叠，我从未觉得美国大选离我如此近过。
这次聊天，没有“正确”，只有“观点”，且不全面。初衷就是，我还挺好奇美国同学是怎么看待大选的。如果你读下去会发现，这几位女生的视角存在明显的局限，体现在一些用词和表述上，譬如会用“缺少教育”来描述一些特朗普的支持者。作为来欧洲短期交流学习的学生，她们自己也成长在相对具有优势的家庭里——Romi的父亲有自己的生意，支持特朗普；Tes来自Utah州，这个州平均家庭年收入相当高。
很可惜，有机会的话应该和Trump支持者聊聊。可惜目前不太认识这样的美国朋友。有人给我推荐几个吗？
聊天参与者:
Yang（提问者）
Romi（主要聊天对象, 21岁，来自Northern New York）
Tes（Romi室友，来自Utah）
Ani
以下是我们的聊天对话（有删节）：
Romi： It was very disheartening waking up this morning. Because I think a lot of my peer group thought that things were gonna be different than they are. I mean, it's very shocking and startling thinking about knowing that there are enough people that support Donald Trump that he could actually be elected again.It's very shocking.
Another thing we feel is like, we’re very, very embarrassed. We’re embarrassed by our politics. And now, today, going to class after Trump is in the lead—it just feels so embarrassing.
Ani: Feels humiliating.
Yang：So in your opinion that how Donald Trump will influence the young people's life and influence everyone in the US?
Romi：I think his overall move towards women and minorities is really disgusting and isn't at all like progressive. It's very stuck in the past. And it's concerning because in his last presidency, he put people in the place. Our supreme court justices that overturned Roe v. Wade, who knows what else can be done in this upcoming presidency?
（注：罗诉韦德案，是一起被推翻的美国联邦最高法院案例。美国联邦最高法院裁定孕妇选择堕胎的自由受到宪法隐私权的保护，是次最高法院的判决推翻了联邦层面和州层面上的许多反堕胎法。但裁定也引发了一场长期持续的社会争议。）
暴力、犯罪和移民：“讽刺的是，其实没有人真正来自‘美国’”
Romi:（继续讲）
He is crazy and the people that, like the die-hard republicans are very dangerous people. I had some people from my hometown though, to the January 6th insurrection. I know people that attended that.
(注：维基百科-2021年1月6日，美国华盛顿特区的国会大厦遭到一群支持时任美国总统特朗普的暴徒袭击。这次袭击发生在他在2020年总统选举中失败两个月后，意图发动一场自我政变。)
He insinuates violence, and I’m not sure if you saw yesterday, but he said something like, 'I’m not going to tell my party not to be violent,' or something along those lines. He didn’t feel it necessary to deter people from being violent, even though his party has historically had violent incidents. And in his last presidency...
I think the morale—like people’s excitement to come back home from studying abroad and the general mood towards the United States—is going to get worse. I think we’re going to lose a lot.
（Tes出现，她们对视，充满哭腔，看上去很令人心碎。拥抱。我也加入了去拥抱她们。）
（I know…… it's not good. No, it's okay, yeah. Here I know it's not good. ……don't know what to say. ……My biggest question is, like, how did this many people go for it? That’s what I’m wondering. How is that even possible?）
……（Romi和Tes的一些相互安慰）
Romi：Anyway, where were we？Today is a terrible day！
Yang：We talked about violence.
Romi：I was just saying like his party is pretty violent.Are you familiar with january 6, the insurrection, as we call it?
Yang: The White House?
Romi：Yeah.I just think that his party is very violent, and they're very hateful.
Yang: And I heard that Trump would support increasing government expenditure on military services, something like that.I’m also really confused because some people say that if Donald Trump becomes president, he will make society safer by banning illegal immigrants. And some people blame the Democrats, saying it’s their fault for allowing so many illegal immigrants into the U.S. But I’m not sure—if Trump becomes president, will the situation actually get better?
Tes：No, the thing is—are you asking about the border, like immigration? (Yang：Yes) He doesn’t actually have any real plan to fix it. He just says, 'Oh, I’m going to build a wall,' but that doesn’t make sense.
The smartest thing he could do is make legal immigration easier because legal immigration is really hard. It can take over 10 years, and it’s so difficult. That would be the easiest way to reduce the number of illegal immigrants.
And as for the crime rate, which people think is really high—but it’s not as bad as they say—he’s not going to do what people think he's going to do. He never does. He just lies. He doesn't have any plans. He just speaks things out of his ass and people believe him.
Romi：Another thing to consider is that immigration under Joe Biden hasn’t been great either. Things have been pretty dire, even during a Democratic presidency.To actually improve immigration, it would need to be a major focus.
But Donald Trump , the things that he said about immigrants and minority populations, are really disgusting. You see lots of people calling them like rapists,or referring to them as pests or rodents ——What's also one very famous line of Trump.
(注：2019年的新闻-President Trump heads to Baltimore, a city he called a “disgusting, rat and rodent infested mess" )
He uses horrible language to talk about people who aren’t from America, which is ironic because none of us are truly 'from' America. Most of our families haven’t been here for five or even eight generations.
The country isn’t that old, so it’s strange to have this outlook of 'other people don’t belong here, but I do.' It’s like, 'How many generations has your family really been in this country?'
关于堕胎权：“那个孕妇在急诊室呆了40小时，然后她死了”
Yang: What about gender issues? Like, will he support abortion rights or anything like that?
Tes: He says he’s going to leave it up to the states, which is horrible because it’s already illegal in some states.
Someone just died like 2 weeks ago in Texas because she was having a miscarriage and they wouldn't take like give her an abortion and she died and she died in the ER waiting room. She was there for 40 hours. And she died.
(注：2021年ProPublica的报道-A woman died after being told it would be a ‘crime’ to intervene in her miscarriage at a Texas hospital.)
(注：2022年，德克萨斯州颁布了一项几乎全面禁止堕胎的法律。德克萨斯州《健康与安全法》第170A章完全禁止堕胎，除非在某些特定的有限情况下。）
Even if it's up to the states, women are dying , right now, because it is up to the states .It (the right to abortion) needs to be universally guaranteed, and he doesn't want that.
Honestly, if he wins the House of Representatives—they already have the Senate—then they could literally pass any bill. They could ban gay marriage within the next two weeks, make abortion illegal everywhere, take away access to birth control. They could do so many things. It’s terrifying; it’s more than just Trump being president.
If they win the House, then the House, Senate, and presidency will all be red, and that is terrifying.
Yang: And I heard that the Republicans are also taking the lead in the House of Representatives.
Romi：Yeah. I know… it’s horrible; it’s really not good. If you’re a person with empathy, it’s just hard to watch someone so cruel and unkind to people become president.
He’s basically like a frat guy. Do you know what an American frat, or fraternity, is? Have you ever heard about these places at college where a bunch of boys drink and sometimes people die?
Tes: It's like a sorority. Do you know a sorority?
Romi：Just look up 'fraternity.' Once you understand, I’m saying Trump is like a fraternity guy—just a white man with white man biases who thinks it’s funny to be mean to other people.
（注：fraternity ，兄弟会；sorority，姐妹会）
Tes: He’s a bully. He’s literally a bully.
谁在支持特朗普？
Yang: I think this election made me realize just how much I don’t understand about this society and what most people are thinking. I heard some people say that Donald Trump’s presidency is actually a backlash from the working class against the elites.
Romi：A big thing about donald trump——the people that like donald trump, a lot of them are working class people in rural areas.They see him as someone who protects their economic prosperity and won’t raise their taxes.
So my dad likes donald trump. My dad has a business. My dad has high taxes, and he doesn't like his high taxes. So he wants Trump to win because he thinks Trump will lower his taxes.
But I don’t think that’s necessarily true.
Yang: I heard that Trump’s tax cuts usually benefit bigger businesses or large industries, and that the working class might not actually see much benefit from that.
Romi: Yeah, I think that's true.
Yang: Compared to Republicans, Democrats tend to impose more taxes on the rich people.
Romi：Yes, and my dad doesn't want that.My dad, if in a democratic government with a democratic president, my dad will be taxed more because of his income.
Yang: Why did you say that it’s actually very complicated? Why are there still so many people voting for Donald Trump?
Romi：So socially，from what I understand, it seems like it's very unpopular to support donald trump.It’s kind of embarrassing—if you say you like Trump, it’s like you’re saying you don’t care about women’s rights, you don’t care about immigrants, and that all you care about is money. That’s a pretty common belief.
So, I think a lot of people who support and vote for Trump wouldn’t necessarily tell others.I think people hide that opinion because they know it's wrong.
图1：NBC在十个关键州做的选票调查。一开始票没统计完，还少了很多民主党票池的。一开始看到这个数据觉得很震惊。
图2：最终更新后的数据。今年拉丁族裔的变化比较值得关注。美国大叔Eric认为，主要原因是宗教。https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-elections/exit-polls?amp=1
Yang: Why do many white women also support Donald Trump?
Romi: That’s a really great question, Yang. I don’t know. I have no idea.
All I can tell you is things I’ve personally experienced. From my experience, when it comes to white women supporting Donald Trump, a lot of young women who support him are just following what their parents believe.
Think about this: a wealthy family living, maybe in the South, with a lot of money. Life has been super easy. This girl in the family has all the clothes she wants, can go to whatever college she wants. And her dad’s a big Trump supporter.
（注：wq评-共和党建制派选民的画像）
When the election comes up, the dad says things like, ‘I hope Kamala doesn’t take away all my money,’ stuff like that. So that creates a sense of scarcity in the daughter. And then she wants to support Donald Trump. That’s something I see happening.
I think people—women and young women—vote for Donald Trump because that’s what their parents do, and because they’re afraid their lives will change negatively if the Democrats win. Does that make sense?
Yang：Actually those people are quite privileged.
Romi: They’re very privileged, and it’s very selfish to vote for Donald Trump as a young woman because you’re probably just doing it for the financial benefits from your parents.
Ani, would you say that's like a good example of who would vote for Donald Trump as a white woman?
Yang: We’re just talking about why so many people still support Donald Trump, including a lot of white women.
Romi：I’d say a big part of it is, I think people pretend not to support him, but at the end of the day, they have biases against women and just want economic prosperity.
Ani：Exactly, but they’re not really educated on the economic side of these things. Yeah. (叹气) And it’s just so upsetting.
Romi：Super weird. Can you think of another situation where a white woman would vote for Donald Trump? I’m struggling to think of examples.
Ani: I can think of, like, a lack of education. I think a big thing this year is—I don’t want to say intimidation by spouses—but sometimes people’s husbands or significant others can influence what they do, which is upsetting.
宗教社群：抱团、歧视、掌控感
Romi：Yeah, and we haven’t even mentioned this yet—religion.
People are using terms like ‘antichrist’ tied to Kamala, and other fear tactics are being used. It’s like, if you vote for Kamala, then they’re saying things like religion will be abolished, or that Catholicism or Christianity won’t be valued anymore.
I mean, to a degree, we need to separate church and state, but it’s not like people won’t be able to practice their religion, you know what I mean?
Yang: So what’s Kamala’s actual policy attitude towards religion?
Romi: I think she just wants everyone to practice whatever religion they want. I don’t actually know, so I don’t want to speak to that for sure.
But, like, off the record, I think she sees it as something that’s part of people’s lives, and they should have religious freedom. But very Catholic people are fearful, thinking their religion isn’t being prioritized by the government.
It’s a big deal because people who are religious are naturally against abortion. And people who are very religious, a lot of the time, their communities are made up of people who look just like them. They don’t have exposure to other groups of people.
Yang: So they might have discrimination.
Romi：Yeah, they might have discrimination. They already have the anti-abortion stance, which just aligns with Trump because it’s kind of about keeping other people out, like keeping women more domesticated.
Ani：Or not letting them hold any power.
性别和政治：“我甚至也开始怀疑，一个女人真的能做到吗？”
Romi：And the language that’s been used about Kamala throughout his entire presidency has been disgusting. She’s been called so many things—it’s just so disrespectful, and it’s super harmful. It’s really harmful for young people to grow up in a country where they see this kind of treatment.
Like, I never really thought Hillary Clinton was going to win, unfortunately. So for me, this is the first time it actually felt possible that a woman could become president. And to have that possibility—and then see the language and the mood around her be so misogynistic and sexist—it’s just… really harmful. I think I’m going to need to unpack that because it definitely impacts the way we think about ourselves. At least, for me, it does.
Ani：I agree.It just reinforces the message that, no matter how qualified you are as a woman, there are millions of people who think you don’t deserve the position you’re in.
Romi：I even had this thought—this is insane—but I recently found myself wondering, like, can a woman really do it? Am I crazy to think that a woman could be president? I don’t know. Have you ever had thoughts like that?
And I feel terrible and guilty even admitting it out loud. I didn’t want to share it because I felt so conflicted, but with everything that’s been said about her…
I’m doubting, like, ‘Damn, what if she gets in, and what if she can’t do it?’ Even though I know she could, but…"
Yang:I took a course, and this week—just before the election—the topic is about gender and politics. The lecturer showed us some really shocking graphs about women’s political representation. For example, do you know which countries have the highest shares of women in parliament?
Romi：No, I actually don't,do you?
Yang:No. But the data was surprising to me.
Romi：Is china on there?
Yang：No.（不在top列之中）
Romi：Hmm, it looks like it might be more developing countries. Wait, what were the countries again?
Yang:Rwanda, Cuba, and Nicaragua.
Romi:Interesting.
整体倒退的迹象？
Yang:What do you think people from other countries think about the American election? Like, people from the EU or China—who would they usually support?
Romi:Most people would be against Trump. It seems like in everyone’s media, Trump is portrayed as an idiot and dangerous, which is pretty much in line with how a lot of us feel. But I’m sure there’s some propaganda, depending on the country.
Yang: Actually, yesterday when I was reading Chinese social media ,a lot of Chinese people—mostly men, I think—were saying they hoped Trump would win or something like that.
But today, after the election , the posts that social media recommended to me are quitedifferent, and there’s more worry.
I just don’t get why some Chinese people would support Trump.
By the way, I want to show you some posts on Chinese social media. Here, it’s translated into English by ChatGPT.
(Ani离开）
Romi: I do think, from what I understand, I agree with what the article is saying. The main message is like, we’re not really moving forward; we’re just sort of… moving backwards.
Yang: And it’s not only happening in the U.S.—it’s a global problem.
Romi: You know what? My friend Liz would be a great person for you to talk to about this. This isn’t really my focus in school—I only follow politics on a pretty basic level. But I think my friend Liz was talking about this exact thing last night. I think it would be interesting for you to talk to her.
She was talking about how globally we’re kind of forgetting the past and making the same mistakes again, heading in a weird direction that might look to some people like we’re headed toward a war or something.
哈里斯也不怎么样："Both stand for something while really standing for nothing."
Yang：I guess all the students here at our dorm would support Harris instead of Trump. But why do you say that Harris might not actually be so great, but you’d still pick her if you had to choose? Why isn’t Harris that good?
Romi：I think they waited until the last minute to pull Biden out of the running so that Harris could just slide right into being the Democratic candidate. And I think that was shady. I don’t think it supports a real democratic process, which I found kind of messed up.
Besides that, I just don’t think she’s been great on a lot of issues that are historically important to Democrats. She says she supports them, but in reality, she doesn’t seem to back them as strongly as people think. She’s kind of a fake-out, like it feels like she’s actually not going to do much.
Yang: Like she is just boasting.
Romi:Exactly. Both she and Trump are kind of just speakers. They both stand for something while really standing for nothing.
大选结果可能改变什么？
Yang:Then how do you imagine life would be if Donald Trump becomes president again? Like, what about the little things in your daily life?
Romi:I think that today in the news, we're gonna see some backlash from the democratic party housing. I think that there's gonna be some dangerous events that are gonna happen in the united states.
I think that things are gonna possibly get worse for refugees and minorities in general in the United States.
I think women's rights are gonna be lost even more than they are. I can see more states overturning Roe v. Wade in the future.
If for some reason, we have supreme court justices step down, during this next 4 years, trump would have the opportunity to appoint more of those from my understanding.
I just think he's super intolerant and he's unkind in his whole tone towards it in the country is very aggressive and antiquated. And the things that he says are disgusting. And his attitude toward women is really upsetting.
How are you feeling about it? What do you think? I want to hear what you think?
Yang: I feel bad about it. At first, I was just looking at it from an outsider’s point of view, just trying to analyze why the world is turning to the right and why Donald Trump has so many fans.
Romi：He’s a felon, right? Like, he’s literally a convicted felon. Do you know that?
Yang: Yeah, it's crazy.
Romi: And now he might be our president again anyway.
Yang: But when I think more from a woman’s point of view and as a Chinese person, I just feel so depressed. When I woke up today, many of my friends were all very, very sad and uncertain about this. Those who are studying in the U.S. posted on their Moments saying things like, 'I don’t know what’s going to happen to me four years from now.' Everyone feels so unsure about the future.
Even if it’s not Trump, with the competition between China and the U.S., a lot of STEM students are already under surveillance. If they go back to China and then return to the U.S., their digital devices might be checked. They call it being 'locked in a small black house,' as a metaphor. Someone went back to hometown at the cost of losing degree. It’s so depressing.
And I think if Donald Trump becomes president, it’ll be even harder for Chinese people to get a U.S. visa.
Romi：I agree. I think it’ll be a lot harder. I’m sorry. And it’s already tough—Biden didn’t make it any easier either.
Yang：I’ve been thinking about why people would support Donald Trump, and I realized that some Chinese immigrants living in the U.S. who support him have their reasons. The biggest reason seems to be that they think Trump will do better than Harris when it comes to social security.
Romi: Oh really?
Yang: Yeah, they believe he’ll cut down on refugees and immigrants, and that will lead to less crime or theft.
Romi：That's just a talking point… and I don’t think it has any validity.
Yang: Also, some support Trump because they’re actually very conservative. Like, I saw some Chinese women in the U.S. who would openly say they’re voting for Trump because they don’t want their kids to be transgender or gay or lesbians.
Romi：Exactly, that’s another talking point, like, ‘Oh no, if Harris is elected, all our kids are going to become transgender.’
And it’s like, no… just because some people want the right to be transgender, if that’s what they need to do for themselves, doesn’t mean it’ll affect your child.
That’s just crazy.
“我更害怕更多人会将性别分工内化”
Yang：But Trump has a lot of big interest groups supporting him. Take Elon Musk as an example.
Romi: Me too. We all do. If you’re a woman and you like Donald Trump, I have a lot of disrespect for you. Republican women honestly terrify me. If you’re a woman and a Republican, I’m genuinely super concerned about what has happened to you in your life.
There’s something called internalized misogyny, where women, especially in families where men and women aren’t really treated equally, just take on the political beliefs of the men in their family.
So they internalize things like, ‘Of course, I want to stay home and cook and clean,’ or, ‘Of course, I don’t believe in abortion,’ or even, in some cases, ‘I don’t think I should vote.’ They internalize these beliefs, and it’s awful.
That is a pretty big issue.
如果世界对女孩不安全，还要生育吗？
Yang：Will this election change anything personally for you? Like your future or career path?
Romi: I think… I think a lot of people my age feel like they don’t want to have kids if the world isn’t going to be safe, especially for daughters.
It’s something I think about too—like, if for some reason, I have a daughter and my daughter is raped or something, and then she has to have a child.It’s just… I don’t know. I don’t think it has changed anything for me yet, but it’s something that could lead me to change my mind about the future.
Yang：That makes sense.So similar in China, my friends,they do not want to have babies because they think that if I have a baby that is born to be suffered, why I should have a baby.
Romi：That's how I feel. That's like very common in America.
一些思考：
1）桑德尔在许知远《十三邀》里面提到，特朗普上台其实是底层对精英的反抗，backlash against elite.
2）我先前看了小Lin分析美国两党经济政策及影响的视频。但用经济视角解释人的立场显然太不充分了。大选这阵子刷了很多社交媒体上的信息，确实很不理解中文互联网很多人挺Trump的逻辑。突然就意识到，天哪，有太多我理解不了了！
3）谈论到性别问题的时候，我也很难受。刚好这周关于奥地利历史/政治/社会的讲座课主题是 Gender and Politics in Austria and the EU。
4）Romi提到一点我觉得很有意思，她说支持特朗普在美国是一件令人尴尬的事情。因为如果你这么声张了，相当于就是说你不在乎女性权益，不在乎很多移民的权利，你只在乎钱。让我联想到这似乎是一种美式政治正确。和wq聊，他评论：进步的意识形态是一种社会规范，这个规范我觉得很大程度上算是奥巴马建立起来的吧
5）关于大选，媒体的立场&偏见似乎严重阻碍了事实的传达。媒体是怎么失去那些东西的？我特别想找人当面聊天，有一个原因也是，我似乎难以通过机构媒体等获知更准确的底层民意，而是需要通过自媒体的只言片语来获得，比如当我看了小红书和b站，才发现，“噢，原来有这么多中国人是这么想的”。
6）这两天还问了其他身边的人对大选的态度。
问过美国大叔Eric，隔壁印度夫妇Raktim&Debi，以及合唱团的奥地利&德国同学。他们都不喜欢Trump。当然，他们也都知道自己国家支持Trump的大有人在。Raktim和Debi非常笃定地一齐喊出，“No！”
今晚遇见美国大叔Eric，他一脸阴沉，在厨房做饭继续回归他日复一日的番茄酱拌意大利饺子，很无奈地告诉我说，I am very unhappy.
德国同学和我聊这个话题时，她的最后一句话是， Let's just wait and see.
