译者按：叙利亚中部的哈马市于本周四落入叙利亚叛军之手，叙利亚军队确认已经后撤，在此之际，CNN记者专访了叙利亚叛军“解放黎凡特组织”(Hay'at Tahrir al-Sham)领导人朱拉尼(Joulani)。朱拉尼认为自己不是恐怖分子，自己的组织不是恐怖组织，说他的组织和伊斯兰国不同，他的组织不是目的，而是手段，只是用来对抗叙利亚政府的一种手段，完成任务后就可能解散。
注：有些媒体根据发音把Hay'at Tahrir al-Sham翻译成“沙姆解放组织”，大傻的译文中都用的是“解放黎凡特组织”，此译名来自联合国的中文文件中的既有名字。
文字内容来源于视频转写。
Journalist: You know, listening to you speaking, you've gone through quite the transformation. Once an Al Qaeda leader, your group has had affiliations with Al Qaeda, with ISIS. And now you are projecting this image of a moderate leader and a moderate group. What is HTS right now?
记者：听你讲话，你经历了相当大的转变。你曾经是基地组织的领导人，你的组织与基地组织、伊斯兰国都有联系。现在你展现的形象是一个温和的领导人和一个温和的组织。HTS(译者注：解放黎凡特组织的英文缩写)现在是什么？
Joulani: Hay'at Tahrir al-Sham is one of the factions in the region just like all the others. Now we're talking about a larger project. We're talking about building Syria. Hay'at Tahrir al-Sham is merely one detail of this dialogue, and it may dissolve at any time. It's not an end in itself, but a means to perform a task confronting this regime. Once that task is complete, it will transition to a state of governance, institutions, and so on. I believe that everyone in life goes through phases and experiences, and these experiences naturally increase a person's awareness. A person in their twenties will have a different personality than someone in their thirties or forties, and certainly someone in their fifties.
朱拉尼：“解放黎凡特组织”是该地区的一个派别，就像其他派别一样。现在我们谈论的是一个更大的计划。我们谈论的是建设叙利亚。解放黎凡特组织只是我们谈论的一个细节，它随时可能解散。这个组织本身并不是目的，而是执行与叙利亚政权对抗任务的一种手段。一旦任务完成，它将过渡到治理、机构等状态。我认为，每个人的一生都会经历一些阶段，都会有一些经历，这些经历会自然而然地提高一个人的认识。二十多岁的人和三四十岁的人，当然也包括五十多岁的人，性格会有所不同。
Journalist: So are those days behind you?
记者：那么，那些日子已经过去了吗？
Joulani: Sometimes it's essential to adjust to reality. And because someone who rigidly clings to certain ideas and principles without flexibility cannot effectively lead societies or navigate complex conflicts like the one happening in Syria.
朱拉尼：有时候，适应现实是非常必要的。因为一个僵化坚持某些观念和原则、缺乏灵活性的人，无法有效地领导社会，也无法驾驭像叙利亚这样的复杂冲突。
Journalist: People listening to this are going to wonder why they should believe you. You are still a, specially designated global terrorist by the United States with a $10,000,000 bounty on your head. Your group is a prescribed terrorist organization by the United States, by the UN, by the EU, and others.
记者：听了这番话的人会想，他们为什么要相信你？你仍然是美国特别指定的全球恐怖分子，你的人头被悬赏一千万美元。你的组织是美国、联合国、欧盟和其他国家定性的恐怖组织。
Joulani: I say to people, don't judge by words but by actions. I believe the reality speaks for itself. These classifications are primarily political and at the same time wrong. I define a terrorist as someone who intentionally kills civilians, harms innocents, or displaces people. If we're being honest, many of the wars waged by major powers in Arab, Muslim, and even non-Muslim countries have involved the deliberate killing of 1,000, the destruction of homes, and the displacement of 1,000,000. Even the regime itself is guilty of such actions.
朱拉尼：我对人们说，不要用语言来判断，而要用行动来判断。我相信事实胜于雄辩。这些分类主要是政治性的，同时也是错误的。我对恐怖分子的定义是：蓄意杀害平民、伤害无辜或造成人民流离失所的人。实事求是地说，一些大国在阿拉伯、穆斯林甚至非穆斯林国家发动的许多战争都涉及蓄意杀害上1000人、摧毁家园、造成100万人流离失所。就连叙利亚政权本身也犯有此类罪行。
Journalist: But the US and others would say is that you were parts of groups that did exactly that.
记者：但美国和其他国家会说，你是实施这些行为的团体的一部分。
Joulani: Personally, I have not done these things. The situation must be understood in its historical context. There was a massive war in Iraq that deeply stirred people's emotions, prompting many to go there. The circumstances of that war led people to various places, and my path led me to one of those locations. Given my level of awareness and my young age at the time, my actions evolved to where I am today. I didn't go to Iraq with those intentions. I went to defend the Iraqi people. When I returned to Syria, I didn't want to bring what happened in Iraq into Syria. That's why there were disagreements between us and ISIS.
朱拉尼：就我个人而言，我没有做过这些事。我们必须结合历史背景来理解局势。伊拉克曾发生过一场大规模战争，深深地激起了人们的情绪，促使许多人前往伊拉克。那场战争的情况将人们引向了不同的地方，而我的道路将我引向了其中的一个地方。鉴于我当时的认识水平和年轻，我的行动演变成了今天的样子。不过，我去伊拉克并没有那些意图，我是去保卫伊拉克人民的。回到叙利亚后，我不想把伊拉克发生的事情带到叙利亚。这就是为什么我们和伊斯兰国之间存在分歧。
素材来源官方媒体/网络新闻
