新加坡交通部长解读：如何应对复杂系统中的极端情况？

议长先生：有请洪维能先生。

洪维能（西海岸集选区）：议长先生，感谢交通部长对我们询问的全面答复。我能否向部长澄清一下，你说指定企业在委任首席执行官和董事会主席前需要获得交通部（MOT）的批准？如果是这样，是否意味着外国公司（即在新加坡拥有指定经营实体的多数股权的控股公司）需要获得交通部的批准，即使该外国公司是其本国的上市公司？也就是说，如果它们是上市公司，但不在新加坡，它们的董事长和集团首席执行官也需要获得交通部的批准？

徐芳达（交通部长）：议长先生，如果是指定企业的指定的股东，那么是的，根据我们的法案，其董事长和首席执行官的任命需要获得监管部门的批准，而不是交通部（MOT）的批准。

议长先生：有请陈立峰先生。

陈立峰（后港单选区议员）：我要感谢部长所做的澄清。我不确定部长是否回答了我的一些问题。我只想再问一次。

我的问题是，在没有替代运营商愿意根据法案第4部分第27DE条，在短时间内接管的情况下，新加坡陆交局（LTA）是否能够接管运营？目前的情况如何？他们是否能够这样做？是否有可行的计划或路线图？

此外，我还想问部长，由于其中一些一级巴士持牌企业和其他公司，如新加坡地铁集团（SMRT），新加坡国际港务集团（PSA）由淡马锡拥有，而新加坡樟宜机场集团（CAG）由政府拥有，那么本法案是否会以任何方式导致一些冗员，是否有任何计划剥离政府的股份？

徐芳达：议长先生，我想我在回应演讲中已经回答了这两个问题。我提到，覆盖范围包括可能由政府、淡马锡控股拥有的公司，但也包括可能拥有其他股东的其他实体。

至于这是否会导致陈立峰先生所表达的观点，我认为陈先生可能有一点推断。该法案本身与陈先生提出的进一步观点并无关系，它只是为我们关键的交通企业和基本交通服务提供保障。

对于陈立峰先生提出的第一个问题，当然，作为应对这种极端情况的准备工作的一部分，我们必须研究我们需要在哪些方面加强能力，不仅是在陆交局内部，还要在整个产业生态系统内。因为正如我之前在回应演讲中提到的，这不可能仅靠陆交局一个部门来完成。我们还必须首先与最了解运营情况的员工以及在该实体工作的员工密切合作。即使该实体遇到麻烦，并且在极端情况下我们需要发布特别行政命令（Special Administration Order），他们中的许多人仍然会在那里工作，我们必须与他们密切合作。

因此，我们需要员工、工会的支持，对于一些拥有多个运营商的部门，其他运营商的专业知识也可以帮助我们。因此，这不仅仅是陆交局（LTA）一个部门的努力。这是整个生态系统的努力。不过，我们当然需要做好准备，做好应对所有这些不同情况的准备，有备无患。

议长先生：有请傅丽珊女士。

傅丽珊（三巴旺集选区议员）：议长，我感谢徐部长的全面答复。徐部长向我们保证，只有在极端情况下做为最后手段，政府才会行使介入权力。

鉴于新加坡交通系统的规模和复杂性，交通部或各机构有多大可能能够在短时间内找到具有适当能力的替代领导，以带领指定实体摆脱困境，尤其是这个行业只有少数几家大公司？例如，我们知道，SMRT 花了好几年的时间才回到原来的状态。所以，我希望部长进一步澄清这一部分。

徐芳达先生：议长先生，在这里我或许可以借用医疗领域的一句话：预防胜于治疗。因此，在极端情况发生之前我们所做的很多事情都是为了真正帮助我们减轻风险，防止这些风险变成极端情况，这样我们就可以尽可能避免采取最后的手段。

但是，我们仍然需要做好准备，以防这些风险、这些极端情况将来发生。我们不想措手不及。因此，这就是为什么我们希望通过这项法案，为将来做好准备。不过，正如我之前澄清的，我们希望采取的方法实际上是与我们的三方合作伙伴密切合作。

因此，以SMRT为例，SMRT在可靠性方面所面临的挑战得到了解决，维修工作得到了改善，可靠性得到了提高，工作表现得到了改善，这些都不是通过发布特别管理令来实现的，而是通过陆交局（LTA）、新加坡地铁集团（SMRT）和我们的工会全国交通工友联合会（NTWU）之间的密切合作，共同努力，解决这些问题，而且这项工作仍在持续进行中。因此，这仍然是首选方法。我们将把特别管理令作为最后的手段。如果我们真的需要这样做，是的，它是存在的，但我们宁愿不走这条路。我们更倾向于使用预防而不是治疗的方法。

议长先生：有请安迪先生。

安迪先生（碧山--大巴窑集选区议员）：我想请部长澄清一下。我不确定我是否错过了他的结束演讲。实际上，我提出了一个与重大投资审查司（OSIR）相关的《重大投资审阅法令》 (SIRA)问题。这个法案是一个专用的一站式接触点，让所有利益相关者参与进来，解决他们的关切，尽量减少对他们的影响。但就本法案草案而言，它是非常以部门为基础的。交通部今后是否会实际利用 重大投资审查司来处理利益相关者的问题或关注，还是会设立一个单独的部门实体？

徐芳达（交通部长）： 议长先生，为《重大投资审阅法令》而设立的办事机构，是因为《重大投资审阅法令》是一项基础广泛的法案，涵盖整个经济体系和不同行业。就本法案而言，由于我们有各个行业的主管部门—新加坡民航局（ CAAS）、陆交局（LTA）和新加坡海事及港务管理局（ MPA）—它们将承担办事机构的角色，处理其行业內各公司的事宜。

Mr Ang Wei Neng: Mr Speaker, I thank the Minister for Transport for the comprehensive replies to our queries. Can I just clarify with the Minister that he said that the Chairman and the CEO of the designated equity interest holder need approval by MOT? If so, does it mean that a foreign company, which is a holding company that majority owns a designated operating entity in Singapore, needs approval from MOT, even if the foreign company is a listed company in their home country? That means if they are listed and not in Singapore, they also require their Chairman and their group CEO to be approved by MOT?

Mr Chee Hong Tat: Mr Speaker, if the designated equity holder is designated, then yes, under our laws, the Chairman and the CEO appointments would require approval from the relevant authorities, not MOT. The relevant authorities.

Mr Speaker: Mr Dennis Tan.

Mr Dennis Tan Lip Fong: I would like to thank the Minister for the clarifications that he has provided. I am not sure the Minister has answered some of my questions. I will just ask them again.

Regarding my question, in a situation where there is no replacement operator willing to take over at short notice under Part 4, section 27DE, I asked whether LTA would be in a position to take over the operation. Currently, what is the position, whether they are able to do so or whether there is an actionable plan or roadmap towards such an outcome?

Also, followed by that, I did ask the Minister whether, since some of these Class 1 bus licensees and other companies, SMRT, PSA Corp are owned by Temasek, and CAG is owned by the Government, are there some redundancies in any way arising from this Bill and whether or not there are any plans for divestment of the Government's stakes?

Mr Chee Hong Tat: Mr Speaker, I think I have answered both questions actually in my response speech. I mentioned that the coverage includes companies that may be owned by Government, Temasek Holdings, but also other entities that may have other shareholders.

As to whether this then leads to the point that Mr Tan is making, I think probably a little bit of extrapolation on Mr Tan's part. This Bill, by itself, does not go anywhere near those further points that Mr Tan is making. It is just to provide the safeguards for our critical transport firms and our essential transport services.

For the first question that Mr Tan asked, certainly, we would, as part of the preparations for an extreme scenario like this, have to look at where are the capabilities that we need to build up, not just within LTA, but also within the industry ecosystem as a whole. Because as I mentioned in my response speech earlier, this cannot be done just by LTA alone. We will also have to work closely with, first and foremost, the employees and the staff who are working in the entity who know the operations best. Many of them will still be there, even if the entity were to run into trouble and we need to issue, in an extreme scenario, a Special Administration Order. We will have to work closely with them.

So, we will need support from the staff, the unions, and also for some of the sectors where there is more than one operator, the expertise from the other operators could also come in to help us. So, this is not just an LTA alone effort. This is a whole ecosystem effort. But certainly, we will need to make preparations and we will need to get ready to deal with all these different scenarios so that we are well prepared.

Mr Speaker: Ms Poh Li San.

Ms Poh Li San: Speaker, I thank Minister Chee for his comprehensive reply. Minister Chee assured us that only as a last resort in extreme scenarios will the step-in powers be exercised.

Given the scale and complexity of our transportation system, how likely is MOT or the agencies able to find replacement leadership with the right capabilities at short notice to lead the designated entities out of trouble, especially since this industry only has a few big players? For example, SMRT, we know, took quite a few years with all hands on deck to get back to where they were. So, I would like the Minister to further clarify this part.

Mr Chee Hong Tat: Mr Speaker, this is where perhaps I could borrow a phrase from the healthcare sector. Prevention is better than cure. So, a lot of the things that we do before that extreme scenario happens is to really help us to mitigate the risks to prevent those risks from turning into an extreme scenario so that we can avoid going to this last resort, if possible.

But we still need to be ready in case those risks were to emerge, those extreme scenarios were to happen in future. We do not want to be caught unprepared. So, that is why we wanted to have this Bill, to be future-ready. But as I clarified earlier, the approach that we want to take is actually to work in close collaboration with our tripartite partners.

So, using SMRT as a good example, SMRT's reliability challenges were fixed and maintenance was improved, reliability improved, performance improved, not through the issuance of a Special Administration Order, but through the close collaborations among LTA, SMRT and NTWU, our union, working together, fixing the problems and it remains a continuous work in progress. So, that is still the preferred approach. We will use the Special Administration Order as a last resort. If we really need to do that, yes, it is there, but we would prefer not to go down that path. We would prefer to use prevention rather than cure.

Mr Speaker: Mr Saktiandi.

Mr Saktiandi Supaat: I would like to seek a clarification from the Minister. I am not sure whether I missed part of his closing speech. I actually asked a question about OSIR in connection with SIRA, which serves as a dedicated one-stop touchpoint to engage all stakeholders and address their concerns and minimise the impact on them. But for this Bill, it is very sectoral based. Will MOT actually utilise OSIR to handle stakeholder questions or concerns going forward or will there be a separate sectoral-based entity?

Mr Chee Hong Tat: Mr Speaker, the office is set up for SIRA because SIRA is a broad-based legislation covering across the economy, different sectors. In our case, because we have the sectoral authorities – CAAS, LTA, MPA – they will be the ones who will play the role of this office to deal with the respective firms within their sector.